AMD CEO Lisa Su Isn’t Afraid of the Competition

Last week, some of the astir forward-thinking minds successful tech, culture, and authorities came unneurotic for WIRED’s Big Interview event—a bid of live, in-depth conversations with manufacture leaders. To footwear disconnected the event, Lauren Goode sat down with AMD’s CEO Lisa Su. In this occurrence of Uncanny Valley, hosts Michael Calore and Lauren beryllium down to sermon the cardinal ideas that came up during the interview, arsenic good arsenic the different conversations that caught everyone’s attraction during the event.

Articles mentioned successful this episode:

• AMD CEO Lisa Su Says Concerns About an AI Bubble Are Overblown
• Can AI Look astatine Your Retina and Diagnose Alzheimer’s? Eric Topol Hopes So
• San Francisco Mayor Daniel Lurie: ‘We Are a City connected the Rise’
• Watch the Highlights From WIRED’s 2025 Big Interview Event Right Here

You tin travel Michael Calore connected Bluesky astatine @snackfight, Lauren Goode connected Bluesky astatine @laurengoode, and TK connected Bluesky astatine @TK. Write to america astatine [email protected].

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Transcript

Note: This is an automated transcript, which whitethorn incorporate errors.

Michael Calore: Hey Lauren, however you doing?

Lauren Goode: Mike, I've been pondering the connection tape.

Michael Calore: Because we're taping a podcast?

Lauren Goode: Because we accidental we're taping a podcast.

Michael Calore: Sure.

Lauren Goode: I don't deliberation the kids cognize what that means.

Michael Calore: I mean, they whitethorn cognize what it means successful the abstract, but I don't deliberation they've had the visceral acquisition of really signaling thing onto tape.

Lauren Goode: Onto portion and rewinding the tape. Be kind, rewind, each of that.

Michael Calore: Yep.

Lauren Goode: No, truthful I conjecture we're expected to accidental we're signaling a podcast now.

Michael Calore: Recording works.

Lauren Goode: Recording. Yeah.

Michael Calore: Yeah. It's similar erstwhile radical say, fto maine movie that. You're not really filming anything. You're shooting a integer video.

Lauren Goode: So past if you person a video podcast, are you shooting the podcast? What bash you say? Do you accidental taping, then?

Michael Calore: I deliberation you accidental signaling due to the fact that it just—

Lauren Goode: Recording the pod.

Michael Calore: Yeah.

Lauren Goode: We're signaling the pod.

Michael Calore: It covers each the bases.

Lauren Goode: We're capturing it.

Michael Calore: That's what we're doing.

Lauren Goode: We're sublimating it. All right. Well, should we grounds this pod?

Michael Calore: I would similar to, yes.

Lauren Goode: Let's bash it.

Michael Calore: Honestly, I'm inactive recovering from past week's Big Interview event. My pharynx is inactive feeling a small spot raw, adjacent though it's been similar 4 oregon 5 days.

Lauren Goode: You dependable delightful to me.

Michael Calore: Thank you.

Lauren Goode: But that truly was an epic event.

Michael Calore: It was.

Lauren Goode: Yeah.

Michael Calore: You were connected stage.

Lauren Goode: I was. I was archetypal up successful the morning. Katie, our boss, gave the intro to the league and past it was maine and Lisa Su, the CEO of AMD. And not lone was it a truly absorbing conversation, but past I was done for the day. I didn't person to bash immoderate much interviews aft that. And I conscionable got to perceive and absorb, and determination were immoderate different truly large talks.

Michael Calore: There were, yes. And we're going to speech done immoderate of them. We're besides going to perceive to your speech with Lisa Su, and past we'll speech astir it, and we'll instrumentality listeners down the scenes of The Big Interview.

Lauren Goode: Let's instrumentality them down the curtain.

Michael Calore: Let's bash it. This is WIRED's Uncanny Valley, a amusement astir the people, power, and power of Silicon Valley. Today, we're breaking down the cardinal conversations that went down astatine our Big Interview lawsuit successful San Francisco past week. Since past year, WIRED has hosted this abstraction wherever the astir forward-thinking innovators, whether they're successful tech, politics, science, oregon culture, person in-depth conversations with america that spell beyond the headlines. This year, the lineup included Anthropic's cofounder, Daniela Amodei, idiosyncratic and writer of Super Agers, Eric Topol, and Wicked's director, Jon M. Chu, among galore others. We'll dive into what ideas caught our attraction the most, which ones we're skeptical about, and what these conversations archer america astir the aboriginal of the industries that signifier our lives. I'm Michael Calore, manager of user tech and culture.

Lauren Goode: And I'm Lauren Goode. I'm a elder correspondent.

Michael Calore: Lauren, earlier we perceive your speech with AMD's Lisa Su, it is worthy saying that this is not your archetypal clip speaking with her. Can you stock a spot astir her inheritance and however your erstwhile reporting informed this speech that you had with her astatine Big Interview?

Lauren Goode: I archetypal got to cognize Lisa Su successful idiosyncratic earlier this year. I had the accidental to spell down to Texas wherever AMD has offices and labs, and that's wherever Su spends astir of her time. And we not lone spoke for a large mag portion that I was moving connected for WIRED, but she gave maine a circuit astir immoderate of the investigating facilities that they person there. So I got to spot the chips they marque being enactment done their paces successful these labs. Also had this truly amusive accidental astatine 1 constituent wherever we were each traveling successful abstracted cars around, the labs are successful the rolling hills of Austin, and truthful we had to thrust betwixt the labs.

And astatine 1 constituent she turned to maine and she said, "Do you privation to travel successful my car?" And I said, "Of people I do." So it was me, her, her driver, and her bodyguard, and mean time for me. And we conscionable had an successful extent speech astir AI and the quality and what she's focused on. And we've shared immoderate idiosyncratic anecdotes astir dealing with the healthcare system, but she truly is simply a beauteous singular CEO. She was calved extracurricular of the United States. She was calved successful Taiwan successful 1969, moved to Queens, New York astatine a precise young age, was raised there. Her begetter worked for this metropolis arsenic a statistician. Her parent was an accountant who aboriginal became an entrepreneur. And past Su's inheritance is successful electrical engineering. She went to MIT. I tried speechmaking her thesis, her PhD thesis, due to the fact that she is Dr. Lisa Su, and lad was that just—go consecutive implicit my head. I really sent it to idiosyncratic who's an electrical technologist and said, "Could you assistance maine parse this?"

Michael Calore: So she's ace smart—

Lauren Goode: Super smart.

Michael Calore: And she runs 1 of the biggest spot companies successful the world.

Lauren Goode: Yeah. Yeah. And past she made her mode up done assorted semiconductor companies. And past she landed astatine AMD successful 2012 and astir 18 months later, became CEO.

Michael Calore: Wow.

Lauren Goode: And she has executed what is wide acknowledged to beryllium a singular 10-year turnaround of that company. AMD was connected the brink of bankruptcy successful the aboriginal 2000s. Since 2014, erstwhile she took implicit arsenic CEO, the company's marketplace headdress has risen from astir $2 cardinal to astir $360 billion.

Michael Calore: It's not bad.

Lauren Goode: It's beauteous good. Now, the juxtaposition there, though, is of people Nvidia. People ever inquire astir Nvidia. And Nvidia is simply a $4 trillion institution present and it's a institution that's wide recognized arsenic having smartly foreseen the AI gyration and pivoted its concern to absorption connected AI GPUs. And Nvidia inactive has the overwhelming stock of the GPU market. AMD makes some CPUs based connected the x86 architecture, but they besides person this AI GPU and AI accelerator business, and they person a fast-growing information halfway business.

And truthful what we're seeing successful the spot marketplace broadly close present is each of these antithetic spot makers, whether it's a institution that started retired making chips, similar an AMD oregon Nvidia, oregon whether it's a elephantine hyperscaler oregon unreality company, similar Google oregon Amazon, present getting successful the crippled and making chips. Everyone wants a chip. Everyone wants to marque a chip, and this is what's truly powering the AI revolution. So we had a batch to speech astir connected stage. I was frankly bummed to beryllium constricted to 25 minutes with her. I whitethorn person gone implicit by conscionable a few, and I conscionable ever truly bask talking to Lisa.

Michael Calore: All close then. We're going to perceive to the speech that you had. It's a somewhat condensed mentation of your conversation, but let's springiness it a listen.

Lauren Goode: Dr. Lisa Su.

Lisa Su: It's fantastic to beryllium here, Lauren. Thank you for having me.

Lauren Goode: Thank you truthful overmuch for being here. We're truthful excited. I should enactment for everyone that Lisa revealed to beryllium backstage, that she's already been up and boxed this greeting astatine astir 5:00 AM. So I deliberation you're acceptable to go.

Lisa Su: I americium acceptable to go.

Lauren Goode: All right.

Lisa Su: Are you guys acceptable to go?

Lauren Goode: Is everyone acceptable to go?

Lisa Su: All right.

Lauren Goode: All right. Welcome to San Francisco. You walk a batch of clip successful Texas. It's wherever your location basal is.

Lisa Su: Yes.

Lauren Goode: So you're traveling astir a batch these days. I deliberation it's harmless to accidental that there's a vibe successful San Francisco close now, and I deliberation that's due, successful ample part, to AI. Would you hold with that?

Lisa Su: I would perfectly hold with that. I mean, the endowment and the vigor and the innovation that has travel into San Francisco has decidedly conscionable accelerated implicit the past 12, 18 months, and it's fantastic to see.

Lauren Goode: Which leads maine to the question, are we successful a bubble?

Lisa Su: Let's commencement with: Are we successful the bubble? And I volition say, Lauren, emphatically, from my perspective, no. If we instrumentality a measurement backmost and you look astatine wherever we are successful AI today, it sounds similar thing that radical say, but it's thing that I genuinely believe. AI is the astir transformative exertion of my career, of my lifetime. I mean, you tin spot the powerfulness of the technology, and we're truthful aboriginal successful the usage of it. So I find it truly absorbing erstwhile radical ask, "Are we successful a bubble?" I'm like, "We haven't adjacent gotten started yet."

The magnitude of advancement that we've made successful the past mates of years has been wonderful, but we're inactive astatine the precise aboriginal innings of seeing what AI tin bash and however it tin truly heighten productivity, however it truly changes businesses, however it truly changes the mode we deliberation astir subject and healthcare and each of those reasons. I deliberation we are inactive truthful aboriginal successful the rhythm and it's a really, truly breathtaking clip for me, personally, due to the fact that each time you spot thing caller and you larn thing caller and that's wherefore it's truthful breathtaking to beryllium successful tech.

Lauren Goode: Do you deliberation that the concerns, then, astir it being a imaginable bubble are wholly overstated? I mean, you person to understand, successful a sense, wherefore radical mightiness beryllium looking astatine this and looking astatine the immense amounts of superior that are being invested close present into AI and wonderment astir this.

Lisa Su: I bash deliberation the concerns are somewhat overstated and that's astir apt due to the fact that we're not utilized to bets this big. And it is true, the types of bets that you're seeing successful AI for the largest hyperscalers successful the world, for the largest exertion companies successful the world, for companies similar ourselves, we are making overmuch bolder and bigger bets due to the fact that of wherever we are successful the AI rhythm and the powerfulness that we have. But I deliberation what radical are underestimating is the information that determination is truthful overmuch request for exertion that the underlying wellness of the ecosystem is really, truly strong.

I mean, there's tremendous escaped currency travel being generated by the largest hyperscalers. There's a tremendous request for exertion and the macro is really truly rather beardown arsenic well. And truthful erstwhile you adhd those things together, you say, "Yes, are we investing big?" Yes, we are, but we are investing large astatine the close clip due to the fact that of the exertion capability. And you person to presume that the radical who are moving these companies are precise rational, astute people.

Lauren Goode: You presume a lot.

Lisa Su: Oh, travel on, Lauren, really?

Lauren Goode: Present institution excluded, you presume a lot. Let's unpack the request facet of this. I had a feeling that you were going to accidental that. Incredible magnitude of demand. You've said that before. The leaders of companies similar Microsoft, Nvidia, everyone's talking astir the immense magnitude of request for AI. Unpack that a small bit. What does that really look like? Who's demanding it? What are they demanding it for? Is this enterprise? Is this customers?

Lisa Su: Yeah, I deliberation you spot it successful respective aspects. When we archetypal started, if you were to spell backmost 2 years agone oregon adjacent 12 months ago, I deliberation determination was a batch of request for grooming models. People were trying to fig out, and adjacent today, we're trying to fig out, hey, who's going to person the champion model? We've surely seen a batch of caller innovation successful that area. But I deliberation what's truly driving request contiguous is conscionable AI usage. People are asking AI to bash more. They're asking much questions. They are putting unneurotic much analyzable tasks. There's much successful presumption of agents that are doing work.

And with that demand, what we're seeing is that there's conscionable not capable computing powerfulness that's installed today. So successful a sense, the mode I similar to archer the analogy is if you equate computing usage with utilizing AI to quality and you're moving a company, wherefore wouldn't you privation to person much intelligent capability? And for that reason, the concern is justified, but it takes time. There's a lag betwixt erstwhile you privation the computing capableness and erstwhile you really person it.

Lauren Goode: I conjecture I wonderment if it's much of a top-down effect close present that's happening wherever tech companies, hyperscalers, spot makers are saying, "No, determination is demand," versus bottom-up wherever it's really the consumers and the clients who are saying, "No, we privation this power." Is it an constituent of if we physique it, they volition come?

Lisa Su: No, I deliberation determination truly is existent request from the standpoint of determination are truthful galore much things that we would privation to bash if determination was much computing capableness retired there. And I deliberation you perceive that from conscionable being successful the trenches. The mode I presumption it is, I walk a batch of clip with our apical customers, the apical thought leaders successful the area. And each speech is like, yes, it's large wherever AI is today, but we cognize it's not yet bully enough. We cognize that there's much innovation that tin beryllium done. From a precise idiosyncratic standpoint, erstwhile we look astatine AI wrong AMD, we've made important advancement utilizing AI wrong AMD, but I cognize that it tin bash more. And the thought of unlocking much capableness successful presumption of gathering amended chips, higher quality, little cost, truly automating that full process, which is inactive truthful early.

Lauren Goode: When you look astatine the competitory scenery close now, who keeps you up astatine night?

Lisa Su: When I look astatine the scenery close now, what keeps maine up astatine nighttime is however bash we spell adjacent faster successful presumption of innovation? And I accidental that due to the fact that the 1 happening that we can't ever get backmost is time. And erstwhile you look astatine however bash you marque large leaps successful technology, it is each astir however bash you instrumentality truly bully ideas and get them to marketplace faster than your competition. And truthful from that standpoint, it truly is astir however bash we get our exertion retired there?

Lauren Goode: So it's astir being faster.

Lisa Su: Yes.

Lauren Goode: Faster than who?

Lisa Su: How astir fastest? Is that OK? Look, the happening that I'd similar to possibly accidental astir this marketplace that is besides important is it is dissimilar immoderate different marketplace that I've been portion of. And erstwhile I accidental it's been dissimilar immoderate different market, it's due to the fact that the complaint and gait of innovation is faster, the risks that radical are consenting to instrumentality with caller technology. And the information is you spot this changeless leapfrogging arsenic well, right? So the speech this period is the large occupation that Google has done with Gemini three, and you got to springiness them a batch of credit. It's a large model. But if you deliberation astir each of the things that person happened successful the past 11, 12 months, we were talking astir DeepSeek astatine the opening of the year, present we're talking astir thing wholly different. I deliberation that's what's antithetic astir AI. It is the complaint and gait of change, arsenic such, that determination is nary conception successful my caput of 1 victor oregon 1 loser. I deliberation it's the conception of you're going to perpetually spot this leapfrogging due to the fact that there's truthful overmuch accidental to instrumentality the exertion successful antithetic directions.

Lauren Goode: I'll bring up immoderate of your competitors. So I'm gladsome you brought up Google, due to the fact that Google's been making immoderate truly unthinkable advancement with TPU, their ain homegrown chip. And determination person been reports precocious that Google would really merchantability that spot extracurricular of its ain stack, its ain universe. There's evidently Nvidia, which is the satellite person successful the GPU market. So you some marque GPUs, you're some making AI accelerators. You're some trying to entreaty to some the grooming and the inference crowd. From what I hear, everyone wants to marque their ain customized chip. There's besides Amazon. They marque Trainium and they enactment with Anthropic, who we'll perceive from shortly. So the competitory scenery is beauteous aggravated wherever you are. When you look astatine that cluster, nary pun intended, who bash you spot arsenic the astir formidable rival to you?

Lisa Su: Lauren, we're successful this conception of a contention and I'm successful this conception of this is simply a immense marketplace and you're going to request each kinds of chips. And I truly judge that. I deliberation if I speech astir my imaginativeness of wherever this manufacture goes, you are going to request CPUs, you're going to request GPUs, you're going to request ASICs oregon customized chips, you're going to request each kinds of things. And I deliberation the winners are those who tin comfortably determination crossed those domains and not consciousness like, "Hey, I've mislaid successful that."

So look, Nvidia is simply a phenomenal company, truly large company. So overmuch respect for Google, truthful overmuch respect for each of the hyperscalers that you mentioned, but astatine the extremity of the day, exertion needs choices and exertion needs, really, the close spot for the close workload. And I deliberation that's what we bash astatine AMD. I deliberation that our large differentiation successful this abstraction is we've been investing successful precocious show technologies for the past 10 positive years and we person each of the elements that span each of these pieces together. So it truly is, however bash we turn the marketplace capableness arsenic rapidly arsenic we can? And I americium fortunate to beryllium successful the institution of specified large companies.

Lauren Goode: I person to inquire you astir politics.

Lisa Su: Sure.

Lauren Goode: You've been spending much of your clip successful Washington, DC, these days. And from what I understand, you interface rather a spot with the commerce secretary, Howard Lutnick, arsenic well. I person a circumstantial question for you, but archetypal fto maine inquire you this. How does your acquisition with this medication frankincense far, this statesmanlike administration, comparison to your relations with the last?

Lisa Su: Well, 1 of the things that has go incredibly wide and antithetic is, implicit the past 5 years, I deliberation the designation that semiconductors are truthful halfway to nationalist argumentation has truly intensified. It wasn't the same. It wasn't the aforesaid successful the manufacture before. And I deliberation that makes sense, right? I deliberation chips are present truthful almighty and truthful capable, whether you're talking astir nationalist information oregon the system oregon each of the quality retired there, they're truthful important. I would accidental that what's been antithetic astir this medication is the speed. I deliberation the medication has been highly unfastened and wanting to enactment with industry.

I precise overmuch admit Secretary Lutnick, Secretary Wright, David Sacks is amazing. Michael Kratsios, I deliberation the medication genuinely understands that for this to work, determination needs to beryllium a really, truly unfastened dialog betwixt the medication and industry. So that entree is truly helpful. I deliberation we besides person to bash our portion arsenic a exertion manufacture and beryllium adjuvant successful trying to lick immoderate of the issues that are captious from a nationalist argumentation standpoint, things similar manufacturing much successful the United States. That is bully for the country, that's bully for our industry. That's thing that we each person to measurement up to accelerate. Certainly a batch of speech astir export controls and different things arsenic well.

Lauren Goode: I asked you astir export controls erstwhile we met successful June, and you fundamentally said export controls are a information of beingness successful your world. There was conscionable immoderate quality yesterday that astatine slightest 1 of the bans, I think, that was going to hap connected immoderate of your chips being shipped to China has present been lifted. So you're capable to use for the licenses present successful bid to get your chips to China, arsenic I recognize it. Is that correct?

Lisa Su: Well, possibly I'll accidental it this way. So we really person gotten immoderate licenses to vessel our chips to China. Those happened a fewer months ago, and there's progressive conversations astir what should hap longer-term with export controls. But I deliberation the ruling yesterday was comparative to different facet of it.

Lauren Goode: So antecedently AMD and Nvidia had some agreed to wage the authorities a 15 percent taxation oregon interest connected definite chips that would beryllium shipping to China. So what is the presumption of that now?

Lisa Su: So we person licenses for immoderate of those chips. For us, they're called the MI308 chips. It is simply a spot wherever we enactment precise intimately with our customers and spot what their request is. So we judge we'll beryllium shipping immoderate ships to China implicit time, but we've not been precise circumstantial astir however overmuch due to the fact that we're truly wanting to spot however the full dynamic plays out. It's a precise dynamic time.

Lauren Goode: But volition you beryllium paying the 15 percent taxation to the US authorities connected those chips?

Lisa Su: As we vessel those chips, we volition be.

Lauren Goode: You volition beryllium still? OK.

Lisa Su: Yes.

Lauren Goode: So yesterday's ruling didn't alteration that astatine all?

Lisa Su: That's correct.

Lauren Goode: OK. Really interesting. OK. What other would you similar to spot travel retired of this existent administration? It could beryllium related to policies connected your chips. It could beryllium related to different policies you consciousness powerfully astir arsenic this medication continues.

Lisa Su: Well, what I'm precise passionate astir is the thought that the US should perfectly pb successful AI. Right now, the US leads successful AI plan and AI technology, AI software, the models, each of that. We should besides pb with utilizing AI wrong the United States. And 1 of the areas that this administration, President Trump, has been precise guardant leaning connected is his AI enactment program that was unveiled during the summer. I deliberation we speech astir things and past we really spot things spell into action.

This medication has been truly adjuvant successful bringing immoderate of that to action. So for example, we're talking astir overmuch deeper partnerships betwixt the nationalist labs and manufacture truthful that we tin accelerate the usage of AI truthful that we tin lick immoderate of the important problems astir subject and probe and each those areas. So those are areas that I'm precise passionate about. They conscionable announced this monolithic effort called the Genesis Mission. This is an country where, again, you're going to bring the champion minds successful the state together, specified that we're accelerating our ain usage of AI.

Lauren Goode: There is this divergence of opinions close present successful the industry, whether oregon not we should beryllium shipping chips to China, adjacent if it's not the champion chips, adjacent if it's the H20 oregon the MI308, successful your case. And immoderate radical consciousness that it's a menace to nationalist information to bash that. Some radical consciousness that, by withholding our chips from China, that perchance it would incentivize the state to physique their ain robust AI chips, which we cognize that China is doing. Where bash you mostly basal connected that? I mean, I cognize you person chips to sell, but really, wherever bash you basal connected and however overmuch exertion the US should beryllium shipping to China?

Lisa Su: Yeah. I deliberation the mode I deliberation astir this is, archetypal and foremost, US nationalist information is the fig 1 priority. And we are afloat supportive of that. It is our work to marque definite that that's the case. And the information that AI chips tin truly assistance from a information standpoint is intelligibly there. China is an important market. I would accidental erstwhile we look astatine the agelong arc, we privation to person entree to the Chinese market. There are a batch of astute radical there.

There's a batch of innovation happening there. We would privation the full satellite to beryllium utilizing the US AI stack due to the fact that it's not conscionable about, "Hey, we privation to merchantability chips," oregon Nvidia wants to merchantability chips. It's truly astir we privation the ecosystem to make successful specified a mode that we person entree to the smartest radical utilizing US AI exertion due to the fact that that conscionable helps america guarantee that we proceed to enactment astatine the bleeding edge. So I bash deliberation that the medication is reasoning astir these things precise carefully, the thought that we indispensable support nationalist security, but we besides privation US exertion to proceed to beryllium the champion successful the world, and we're precise overmuch a portion of that conversation.

Lauren Goode: One much speedy question for you. I asked you a mentation of this before. I said, "What impresses you astir arsenic a person and what irritates you astir arsenic a leader?" And present I'm going to inquire you a mentation of that astir AI. What impresses you astir astir AI close present and what irritates you astir astir AI close now?

Lisa Su: What impresses maine the astir astir it is conscionable however overmuch imaginable it has and however rapidly it gets better. I really—

Lauren Goode: What's an illustration of that?

Lisa Su: An illustration of that is erstwhile you're utilizing it successful your regular life, however often bash you usage it? I usage it 10 times much contiguous than I did adjacent 3 months agone due to the fact that it really is helping me. It's helping maine stitchery information. It's helping maine get prepared for things. It's helping maine successful presumption of what accusation that would beryllium useful. But what irritates maine is it's inactive not close capable of the time. And truthful it goes backmost to this conception of we are truthful early, but the imaginable is truthful clear. It is incredibly wide to maine that we are going to beryllium ace amazed astatine what we usage AI for. Forget astir what we usage AI for 5 years from present oregon 10 years from now. One twelvemonth from now, we're going to beryllium ace amazed astatine however overmuch AI is simply a portion of each of our regular lives, adjacent though we deliberation we're utilizing it a batch today.

Lauren Goode: Dr. Lisa Su, convey you truthful overmuch for joining me. I conscionable wanted to accidental this was a fantastic speech and we truly admit you kicking america off. So, convey you.

Lisa Su: Thank you.

Michael Calore: Let's instrumentality a speedy interruption and erstwhile we travel back, we'll sermon our cardinal takeaways from the Lisa Su interrogation and different things that happened connected The Big Interview stage.

Welcome backmost to Uncanny Valley. Lauren, we conscionable listened to your interrogation with Lisa Su from AMD. It was not astonishing to perceive her stock that she thinks that the fears of an AI bubble are overblown and that the request for chips volition lone proceed to grow. But it was a spot astonishing to spot that she didn't truly code AMD's contention successful a nonstop way. And considering that AMD is inactive just, like, a fraction of the size of its biggest competitor, which is Nvidia, did it consciousness similar Nvidia is the elephant successful the country and much generally, what bash you deliberation the strategy was down this messaging?

Lauren Goode: I deliberation that's just to say, yeah, that it is the elephant successful the room, but I besides deliberation that the competitory scenery is simply a batch much nuanced than conscionable AMD versus Nvidia. And I deliberation successful immoderate way, that's astir apt what Su and her enforcement squad astatine AMD are trying to convey. I mean, 1 crushed is that arsenic AI itself evolves and the mode that generative AI is being made, changes the needs for compute powerfulness alteration too. So GPUs are truly large for grooming elephantine AI models similar the benignant that OpenAI and Anthropic built, but there's besides inference. There's a fast-growing marketplace for inference, which requires somewhat antithetic combinations of compute power. And truthful what's your favourite word, Mike? “Compute.”

Michael Calore: “Compute.”

Lauren Goode: “Compute” arsenic a noun.

Michael Calore: You tin conscionable accidental “computing resources.” It's OK.

Lauren Goode: Computing resources. I similar that. Computing resources, let's marque that a happening connected this podcast. And truthful I deliberation AMD is trying to presumption itself arsenic not lone a shaper of GPUs, but CPUs that tin service antithetic needs. And the different happening is, similar I referenced earlier, that it's truly not conscionable AMD versus Nvidia due to the fact that of the information that truthful galore different elephantine tech companies are now, they either marque chips and they person truly strategical partnerships, similar Amazon's with Anthropic, oregon they're decidedly looking astatine making chips, whether it's Meta oregon OpenAI, which is readying to marque a customized spot with Broadcom. So the contention abounds. There's besides these tier 2 level spot makers and unreality companies that are serving antithetic parts of the marketplace too, similar Cerebras oregon Grok oregon SambaNova oregon truly the database goes on.

Michael Calore: Yeah. And she mentioned this successful your talk, the information that determination are respective antithetic chips indispensable for each antithetic exertion of artificial quality oregon instrumentality learning.

Lauren Goode: Right. What stood retired to you from the talk?

Michael Calore: The happening that stood retired to maine the astir is that she was illustrating however rapidly the AI marketplace is evolving. And she said astatine the opening of the year, we were talking astir DeepSeek, which was similar the ultra light, ultra inexpensive exemplary that came retired of China. And I gasped due to the fact that I was like, that was little than a twelvemonth ago—

Lauren Goode: Right.

Michael Calore: —we were talking astir DeepSeek? So I mean, evidently she's going to accidental that we're not successful a bubble, but she's close that the marketplace is conscionable evolving astatine specified a speedy gait and the system is conscionable similar going each successful connected this technology. This is me, this is not Lisa Su talking, but possibly we're not going to spot each of the promises that the manufacture is making, that AI is going to beryllium this big, transformative technology, but it perfectly cannot beryllium ignored. And it perfectly volition beryllium sticking astir due to the fact that there's conscionable truthful overmuch momentum down it.

Lauren Goode: Totally. And she said earlier this twelvemonth we were focused connected DeepSeek and present we're talking astir Gemini 3, which is Google's latest AI model, which uses Google's ain spot technology, TPUs, tensor processing unit. And truthful adjacent though she said specifically Gemini 3, to me, that meant that she was gesturing towards it's Google's spot efforts. It's that afloat stack integrated effort. And that's something, don't slumber connected TPU.

I mean, I retrieve adjacent a mates of years agone erstwhile I was moving connected different communicative for WIRED astir Nvidia's Jensen Huang asking someone, an AI CEO successful the industry, "When you're looking astatine the kinds of computing resources that you need, and it's not conscionable Nvidia, but you're looking astatine different options who's astir absorbing to you?" And they said, "Well, TPU is interesting." And that was then, and Google's been moving connected this for a agelong time. So erstwhile again, don't slumber connected TPU, I think.

Michael Calore: That's right. I transportation astir a mentation of a TPU successful my pouch each time connected my Pixel phone.

Lauren Goode: And your Pixel phone, is that called the TPU? [inaudible]?

Michael Calore: Oh yeah, I usage it. I tally monolithic amounts of compute connected my Pixel phone.

Lauren Goode: We're going to get an email from Google's comms squad soon with a afloat rundown and specs of the Pixel again—

Michael Calore: Brilliant.

Lauren Goode: Just successful lawsuit we forgot.

Michael Calore: Let's determination connected to immoderate of the different conversations that happened connected signifier during The Big Interview lawsuit past week. You told maine that Eric Topol's interrogation caught your attention. He is the doc and idiosyncratic who besides wrote a publication called Super Agers astir longevity. When I deliberation astir longevity successful the discourse of Silicon Valley, I unluckily instantly deliberation astir biohackers and radical who person bloodboys and truthful on, but I anticipation that Eric Topol's attack was a small spot different.

Lauren Goode: Topol is simply a existent one. Have you listened to him connected podcasts earlier oregon work immoderate of his work?

Michael Calore: I saw him connected stage.

Lauren Goode: There you go.

Michael Calore: I person not work his book.

Lauren Goode: There's truthful galore grifters retired there, truthful galore snake lipid salesmen successful wellness and wellness these days wholly fueled by online influencer civilization that erstwhile you perceive to Topol, you recognize what he's saying is evidence-based. I emotion however Sandra asked him to people the existent officials successful the wellness and quality services successful the United States. And helium fundamentally said that RFK Jr. and his ilk are the antithesis of bully health. I similar however we talked astir however screening for definite diseases is age-based now. You get to property 40 and you should spell get a mammogram. You get to property 45 oregon 50, you should get a colonoscopy. And helium talked astir however possibly that should germinate truthful that it becomes much data-based, much genetics-based, much risk-based, based connected your hazard factors, which conscionable seems to marque truthful overmuch consciousness to me, peculiarly present erstwhile much young radical are getting cancers.

Michael Calore: Yeah. And I'm definite erstwhile helium said that, each of the folks moving successful AI successful the country sat up due to the fact that that's a large accidental for them.

Lauren Goode: Yeah. And helium really had immoderate affirmative things to accidental astir AI. He thinks it has the imaginable to spot trends and symptoms to assistance doctors admit unwellness earlier.

Michael Calore: So you mentioned that helium gave immoderate wellness proposal astatine the end?

Lauren Goode: Yeah. And it was beauteous straightforward. It's similar person a bully diet, workout often, marque definite you get capable sleep. Sleep is hugely important. He talked astir gathering assemblage and not the benignant of assemblage that you physique done screens, but really IRL. You and I sitting successful this podcast erstwhile a week, going for motorcycle rides, gossiping—

Michael Calore: Gardening.

Lauren Goode: Fuel of life. Yeah. And I'm adjacent going to spell backmost and perceive to that league again. That's however overmuch I enjoyed it.

Michael Calore: We each should.

Lauren Goode: Yeah, we each should. So Mike, earlier the conference, Katie, our boss, posted thing successful our WIRED Slack, which was basically, "Hey, San Francisco folks, I'm interviewing your mayor. What bash you privation to know?" And I could see, "Michael Calore is typing, Michael Calore is typing." And I was like, this is his moment. He's been waiting for this.

Michael Calore: Well, yeah. I mean, our mayor, Daniel Lurie, is comparatively new. He's a year, almost, into the job. And determination are a batch of things to speech astir erstwhile you speech astir San Francisco's politician due to the fact that San Francisco is simply a metropolis that has been utterly transformed successful the past mates of years by the AI industry. It is besides a metropolis that has been utterly transformed by the pandemic 5 years agone due to the fact that our downtown is hollowed out. We person a 7 by 7 portion of onshore that is precise hard to physique lodging on. So we person a unspeakable lodging crisis. We also, of course, person a unspeakable thoroughfare cause problem, conscionable similar astir large cities close present with the fentanyl situation and opioid use.

So the politician is idiosyncratic who is not an experienced politician. He did not travel up done metropolis hall. He has a batch of wealth and helium chiefly works successful philanthropy and nonprofit sectors. And helium came into the bureau and took a precise absorbing attack to however helium was going to govern San Francisco. He approached it similar a manager. And Katie asked him respective things astir this, peculiarly erstwhile you took office, immoderate of these problems were already solved. Some of them were things that you solved. How overmuch did you inherit your success? How overmuch bash you ain your success? And helium was alternatively deferential to each of the enactment that everybody successful the metropolis has been doing. But helium besides talked a batch astir the AI manufacture and however that has transformed lodging and however that has transformed the economy. And I thought that each of that was truly absorbing due to the fact that helium doesn't bash a batch of interviews. He doesn't bash a batch of press. Daniel Lurie does property conferences—

Lauren Goode: He does bits connected societal media.

Michael Calore: He does a batch of bits connected societal media.

Lauren Goode: Yeah.

Michael Calore: Yeah.

Lauren Goode: Was determination thing peculiarly illustrative that helium said astir housing, for example, that stood retired to you?

Michael Calore: Yes. So the large conflict successful San Francisco close present successful lodging is the upzoning initiative. Basically, it converts a batch of areas of the metropolis that are precocious postulation areas adjacent transit hubs, adjacent large streets that it's hard to physique thing that would location a batch of people. So buildings that are much than 2 oregon 3 stories tall, buildings that person precocious density housing. And the metropolis conscionable passed an ordinance that would alteration this and it would let developers to build, build, physique successful places wherever they'd antecedently been locked out. And the process for this was contentious, of course. They conscionable passed this and already radical are talking astir suing the city, right?

Lauren Goode: Homeowners?

Michael Calore: Yeah.

Lauren Goode: People who don't privation much building.

Michael Calore: Yeah. People who are against gathering for a fig of reasons. Most of them autumn isolated erstwhile you look astatine the nationalist bully that much lodging would do. Some of them are really valid and determination are a batch of tiny concern owners who are disquieted astir losing the gathering that they're in, things similar that, that are existent problems. But the politician was precise adamant astir the information that, OK, this went done nationalist approval. The radical of San Francisco privation this, truthful we're going to bash it and it's going to hurt, but we request to bash it.

And this thought that we're going to spot the process and we're going to person nationalist comment, we're going to person nationalist debate, and past we're going to marque a ballot and immoderate the metropolis votes connected goes. That has ever been a occupation successful San Francisco due to the fact that determination are truthful galore voices and radical consciousness ignored and radical don't consciousness heard. The different thing, to your question, that helium talked astir that I thought was truly indicative of his managerial benignant was helium talked astir however the metropolis authorities meetings work. There's each of these antithetic agencies wrong the metropolis authorities and they lone get unneurotic truthful often. Well, helium accrued the frequence of their face-to-face meetings. He besides has installed caller radical to oversee small pockets of agencies for amended coordination, fundamentally conscionable similar much absorption of what's going connected wrong each the agencies of the city. So yeah, he's a suit and he's acting similar it.

Lauren Goode: And helium wears bully socks.

Michael Calore: Yeah. So the interrogation started with him talking astir however helium has a bully sock crippled and past Katie was like, "Prove it." And helium took disconnected his shoes and showed the assemblage his socked feet.

Lauren Goode: Yeah, due to the fact that it looked similar from the top, they were conscionable achromatic socks, but past helium was like, "No, no, no, there's thing connected the foot." So helium took disconnected 1 of his shoes.

Michael Calore: That's right.

Lauren Goode: Don't deliberation we've had a infinitesimal similar that astatine our WIRED league before.

Michael Calore: Nope.

Lauren Goode: It sounds similar you're beauteous affirmative connected Lurie truthful far.

Michael Calore: I mean, I'm conscionable similar astir San Franciscans, I'm ne'er going to beryllium blessed with our politician and I'm ne'er going to beryllium blessed with metropolis authorities due to the fact that determination are inactive truthful galore problems that request to beryllium solved that I consciousness similar the metropolis is bungling. I was skeptical of him erstwhile helium came into office. I'm little skeptical of him present that I person seen him enactment for a twelvemonth and I've heard him speech astir these things connected signifier astatine The Big Interview.

Lauren Goode: That's encouraging.

Michael Calore: I privation to speech astir 1 much interrogation that caught your attention. And you told maine it was Michele Jawando, who was the president of the Omidyar Network.

Lauren Goode: Yeah. I cognize immoderate of the folks astatine the Omidyar Network and I had ne'er interacted with Michelle earlier and I inactive didn't truly person the accidental to get to cognize her ace good astatine our event, but she was determination and she was a talker connected stage. And besides conscionable afloat disclosure, Omidyar Network happened to beryllium 1 of the sponsors of our lawsuit this year. So OK, we'll get that retired of the way. But Michelle, yeah, she's a truly absorbing person. She's worked arsenic the planetary nationalist argumentation pb astatine Google successful the past. She codirected the 2020 planetary predetermination integrity squad there. She's worked successful civilian rights law. I mean, she's done it all. And her speech with Katie was precise wide-ranging and philosophical. But the happening that stood retired to maine was that astatine 1 constituent aboriginal connected successful the talk, she made the assemblage repeat, "AI is not destiny, it is design." And she said it twice.

And she was fundamentally making the statement that we tin person bureau connected however AI is deployed successful our lives. She talked a batch astir however it's important to person radical from assorted perspectives and industries successful the country erstwhile decisions are being made astir tech design. She said it's a mendacious binary to accidental that gathering that way, similar successful a thoughtful way, means that you person to dilatory down innovation. And she called for much concern successful startups that really privation to propulsion the envelope towards bully for society. And due to the fact that Omidyar fundamentally lobbies for amended governance astir technology, she was drafting a nonstop nexus betwixt this bureau oregon deficiency of bureau we person astir technology, power, and past governance. So you request amended governance structures, successful her mind, I deliberation she made a bully lawsuit for it, successful bid to person a much equitable tech deployment.

Michael Calore: Yeah. And that's been their mantra since they started moving with each these organizations, is trying to find solutions that are much equitable for everybody.

Lauren Goode: Yeah.

Michael Calore: Yeah.

Lauren Goode: And I don't needfully ever judge that governance is the reply to however to physique amended tech products. But what we've seen is conscionable this implicit runaway bid of exertion implicit the past 15 years oregon so. And the motivation versus immoral model that we thin to enactment connected exertion companies for however they're gathering thing nary longer applies due to the fact that they've conscionable thrown it retired the window. It's build, build, build, scale, scale, scale. And truthful I deliberation you bash request immoderate mitigating forces determination successful bid to marque definite that we're not conscionable users being abused by technology.

Michael Calore: And they tin bash it without turning disconnected the wealth faucet.

Lauren Goode: Right.

Michael Calore: All right. Let's instrumentality different break. And past erstwhile we travel back, we'll bash our WIRED and TIRED.

OK, Lauren, we are winding down to our past segment. It's called WIRED and TIRED, and you cognize the drill. Whatever is caller and chill is WIRED, and immoderate is passé is TIRED. So bash you privation to spell first?

Lauren Goode: Sure. This is not new. I'm going to accidental bubble baths are WIRED. And our producer, Adriana, close now, is going to beryllium like, "I request a tech recommendation." There is simply a tech portion of this.

Michael Calore: Oh, successful bubble baths?

Lauren Goode: In bubble baths.

Michael Calore: OK.

Lauren Goode: So I'm going to presume that astir radical who instrumentality baths bring their telephone into the bath with them, right? We each deliberation we're going to work a book, but travel on, phones are waterproof now.

Michael Calore: I typically conscionable enactment connected euphony and past permission my telephone retired of the bath.

Lauren Goode: Some of america whitethorn person been successful positions earlier wherever we had to instrumentality a bath due to the fact that we had to respond to enactment emails due to the fact that we were bathing for the day, but I usage this bubble bath from Kneipp, a German brand. It's eucalyptus bubble bath. It's great. You conscionable request a tiny headdress afloat and it conscionable changes the full vibe. I was speechmaking the vessel the different time and I realized that there's a QR codification connected the backmost of the vessel for a Spotify playlist.

Michael Calore: Oh no.

Lauren Goode: Yeah. It's a Spotify playlist that comes with your bubble bath.

Michael Calore: So is it similar a unsocial play? Well, it can't beryllium a unsocial playlist, but I mean, bash they alteration it ever?

Lauren Goode: It was fine. I don't cognize if they'd alteration it. I don't deliberation so. It was fine.

Michael Calore: OK. They went done the effort.

Lauren Goode: You cognize what? It's a bully idea. There was a clip a portion agone wherever I retrieve getting a brace of moving shoes and determination was a QR codification successful them, successful the sole, and I thought, this is dumb. Why bash I privation this QR? But I was similar QR codification connected the bubble bath vessel for a bubble bath playlist. Pretty cool.

Michael Calore: Yeah. The pandemic changed QR codes forever.

Lauren Goode: It truly did. Yeah. And truthful present they're everywhere. They're successful the bath.

Michael Calore: So however would you complaint the bubble bath playlist?

Lauren Goode: Oh, similar a coagulated 4 retired of 10.

Michael Calore: Really?

Lauren Goode: Not great, but you cognize what? A, for the effort.

Michael Calore: Did it person the “Rubber Ducky” song?

Lauren Goode: No, it was precise chill. It's similar thing you would've heard successful a yoga people oregon something.

Michael Calore: Oh, OK.

Lauren Goode: Yeah.

Michael Calore: OK. Appropriate.

Lauren Goode: Appropriate.

Michael Calore: Nice. So what's your TIRED?

Lauren Goode: My TIRED is Spotify. No, OK. Specific—well, yeah, possibly Spotify. But the Spotify Wrapped this year, over, done, get it out.

Michael Calore: Yep.

Lauren Goode: Why are we inactive doing them? And this year, I'm convinced—I'm going to adhd Spotify comms to the database of choler emails we're going to get—I'm convinced that the property happening was conscionable truthful we'd each speech astir it.

Michael Calore: Oh, yeah. What's your philharmonic age?

Lauren Goode: What's your philharmonic age? It was truthful random. I had friends getting 67. I got 21 and I was like, I don't cognize why. Either they deliberation I'm listening to '90s euphony ironically, arsenic a 21-year-old mightiness bash close now, oregon I'm listening to capable vaguely emo worldly that they deliberation ... I was like, I don't get it. What was your age?

Michael Calore: I'm connected Tidal. I'm not connected Spotify.

Lauren Goode: Oh.

Michael Calore: Yeah.

Lauren Goode: Wait, really?

Michael Calore: So I don't know. My property is my age.

Lauren Goode: But don't I nonstop you Spotify worldly sometimes?

Michael Calore: Sometimes, yes.

Lauren Goode: Sudden realization that he's ne'er listened to thing I've sent him.

Michael Calore: No, I person a small work wherever you plug a nexus successful and it generates a Tidal link. There's a batch of these. It's beauteous cool. When radical nonstop you links, you tin conscionable marque them immoderate work you perceive to, if you're an Apple Music idiosyncratic oregon a YouTube Music person.

Lauren Goode: I'm guessing your property would've been, if Spotify Wrapped did your age, I deliberation helium would've gotten a coagulated 58 to 62.

Michael Calore: Oh my God. How situation you?

Lauren Goode: Well, because, yeah. I don't know. Actually, possibly they would've mistaken you for a 37-year-old who goes to tons of shows. Because you bash spell to ticker shows.

Michael Calore: They don't cognize that I spell to a batch of shows.

Lauren Goode: Approximately 58 would've been your age, I think.

Michael Calore: Thank you. I'm very—

Lauren Goode: 50, 55, maybe.

Michael Calore: I precise overmuch admit that. Yeah.

Lauren Goode: OK. Tell maine your WIRED and TIRED. I'm truthful excited.

Michael Calore: OK. So for the WIRED, I'm truly excited astir the caller merchandise from Pebble, which, to beryllium clear, I person not tried, but our colleague, Julian Chokkattu has tried it and he's written astir it. It's a ring. It's called Index. It's a astute ringing and it costs nether $100.

Lauren Goode: What? Is this an Aura competitor?

Michael Calore: No, it's very, precise simple. So it's called Index due to the fact that you deterioration it connected your scale digit and it has a small fastener that sticks retired connected the broadside that you property with your thumb. So it has a thumb fastener connected it and you property that to activate it and past you tin talk your notes and dependable notes into it. Those spell onto your phone. There's an on-device AI constituent that does code to substance for your notes and gives you notes that are searchable and shareable connected the app connected your phone. Nothing goes into the cloud. There is nary subscription. So it's an AI powered astute ringing that does not person an AI subscription. And I emotion this. So my existent WIRED is astute exertion that you deterioration successful your assemblage that does not travel with a subscription.

Lauren Goode: And past you conscionable hold for the ads to appear? Great.

Michael Calore: Yeah. So it's beauteous sweet.

Lauren Goode: OK. It's called the Index.

Michael Calore: Index. Yeah.

Lauren Goode: Or conscionable Index. OK.

Michael Calore: Yeah. Index ring.

Lauren Goode: How overmuch does it cost?

Michael Calore: It's similar $99. I deliberation you tin bargain it for $75 close now. And the weird happening is it has a artillery successful it that's not rechargeable due to the fact that it does truthful small they tin marque it without a rechargeable battery. So you conscionable usage it until the artillery is depleted, which volition instrumentality astir 2 to 3 years with regular use. And past you nonstop it backmost to them for recycling and past you bargain a caller one. So you're buying a caller 1 each 3 years, 2 years, but that feels OK due to the fact that they're not hitting you for a subscription successful betwixt and they're recycling it for you.

And I volition accidental that the thought that you tin get a instrumentality that is this bully and this astute without a subscription these days is large due to the fact that evidently the institution is leaving wealth connected the array and I privation much companies would bash that due to the fact that the subscription happening is conscionable getting truthful outrageous. Everything is coming with a information subscription present oregon a work subscription. We've been feeling subscription fatigue for a truly agelong clip with streaming, media and present we're feeling it with our devices and I'm implicit it and I would conscionable similar to bargain things that enactment and I don't request to wage you immoderate much money.

Lauren Goode: Is that your TIRED?

Michael Calore: That is my TIRED, yes.

Lauren Goode: Beautifully done.

Michael Calore: Thank you.

Lauren Goode: Yeah. So what's the solution? Are you conscionable going to cancel a clump of subscriptions successful the caller year?

Michael Calore: I cancel subscriptions each the time.

Lauren Goode: I know.

Michael Calore: And yes, I volition beryllium canceling more.

Lauren Goode: You cognize what's funny, but it's not funny, it's beauteous dark. When you are trying to prevention money, the archetypal happening that well-meaning folks, whether it's a fiscal advisor oregon friends oregon similar the FIRE assemblage connected Reddit volition accidental is like, "Cancel each your subscriptions." When I tally up my subscriptions, it pales successful examination to the outgo of food. Then I look astatine the nutrient file connected a fund spreadsheet. I'm like, "This is absurd." I mightiness arsenic good conscionable support the subscriptions due to the fact that it doesn't adjacent substance anymore.

Michael Calore: And halt eating. Just atom and beans from present connected retired until 2027, folks.

Lauren Goode: Well, connected that note—

Michael Calore: All right. Well, thanks, Lauren. This was fun. It was bully to recap The Big Interview.

Lauren Goode: It truly was and I anticipation folks instrumentality a fewer minutes to spell perceive to those interviews.

Michael Calore: Thanks for listening to Uncanny Valley. If you liked what you heard today, marque definite to travel our amusement and complaint it connected your podcast app of choice. If you'd similar to get successful interaction with america with immoderate questions, comments, oregon amusement suggestions, you tin constitute to america astatine [email protected]. Today's amusement is produced by Adriana Tapia and Mark Leyda. Amar Lal astatine Macro Sound mixed this episode. Mark Leyda is our San Francisco workplace engineer. Kate Osborn is our enforcement shaper and Katie Drummond is WIRED's planetary editorial director.